Iran retakes Azerbaijan and Armenia during the Russian Civil War

lynxpt

Arguably, Iran missed a chance to retake Azerbaijan and Armenia during the Russian Civil War. Turkey was able to secure territorial gains during the Russian Civil War with the Treaty of Kars, Iran could have done so as well.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerb...e_Azerbaijan_Democratic_Republic_(April_1920):
"In order to escape the possibility of a Soviet invasion and an even greater imminent threat of an Armenian invasion, Muslim Nakhchivan proprosed annexing to Iran.[47] The then pro-British government in Tehran led by Vossug ed Dowleh made endeavours amongst Baku's leadership to join Iran.[47] In order to promote this idea, Vosugh ed Dowleh dispatched two separate Iranian delegations; one to Baku and one to the Paris Peace Conference in 1919.[47]"
So, Azerbaijan could have joined Iran in order to save themselves from the Soviets.
Is it conceivable that Armenia, faced with the Turkish threat, could have joined Iran as well?
That would basically be a reversal to the borders of Iran before the Treaties of Gulistan and Turkmenchay.
The problem I see is that oil from Baku was non-negotiable for the Soviets. I am not sure if the Red Army was strong enough to defeat Iran at this time, though.
 
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Lalli

What Iran would had done with them speciality when Armenians and Azeris hardly would are very happy about such thing? And not sure if Britain would had allowed that even if option would had them going to hands of Bolsheviks.
 

Tom_B

lynxpt said:
Arguably, Iran missed a chance to retake Azerbaijan and Armenia during the Russian Civil War. Turkey was able to secure territorial gains during the Russian Civil War with the Treaty of Kars, Iran could have done so as well.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerb...e_Azerbaijan_Democratic_Republic_(April_1920):
"In order to escape the possibility of a Soviet invasion and an even greater imminent threat of an Armenian invasion, Muslim Nakhchivan proprosed annexing to Iran.[47] The then pro-British government in Tehran led by Vossug ed Dowleh made endeavours amongst Baku's leadership to join Iran.[47] In order to promote this idea, Vosugh ed Dowleh dispatched two separate Iranian delegations; one to Baku and one to the Paris Peace Conference in 1919.[47]"
So, Azerbaijan could have joined Iran in order to save themselves from the Soviets.
Is it conceivable that Armenia, faced with the Turkish threat, could have joined Iran as well?
That would basically be a reversal to the borders of Iran before the Treaties of Gulistan and Turkmenchay.
The problem I see is that oil from Baku was non-negotiable for the Soviets. I am not sure if the Red Army was strong enough to defeat Iran at this time, though.
Click to expand...
The Iranian Army is too weak in this period to have any chance of success. https://www.kavehfarrokh.com/milita...rganization-of-the-iranian-army-in-1921-1941/
 

lynxpt

Lalli said:
What Iran would had done with them speciality when Armenians and Azeris hardly would are very happy about such thing? And not sure if Britain would had allowed that even if option would had them going to hands of Bolsheviks.
Click to expand...
Azeris would probably not have been unhappy with it. Most Azeris were Shia Muslims and Iran was a Shia Muslim state. Also, at this time, Azeri identity was tied to Islam and Iran.
It's different for Armenians as Christians but they might have joined Iran in order to save themselves from the Turkish threat. Also, there are Armenians in Iran and even with the theocracy, Armenians in Iran have significant rights such as reserved seats in Parliament. They are treated better than in Turkey and Azerbaijan.
 
Sphinx

Sphinx

Treated better than in Turkey and Azerbaijan for Armenians is literally the lowest bar ever, it's almost like saying country X treated Jews better than Nazi Germany.

(Would like to say I am not being aggressive or anything just joking around, unfortunately text sometimes gets misread/misunderstood. )

On the possibility, as others have said, it's a little unlikely, the Iranian army was pretty much a non-factor. Maybe the Iranians could get just Nakhchivan or some small concession but otherwise the Soviets will just kick them out and no one cares enough to intervene after WWI just ended.
 
SealTheRealDeal

SealTheRealDeal

You'd likely need a pre-1900 pod to sort out Iran's political, economic, and military weakness. WWI came at the absolute nadir of the Iranian state, which was powerless to do anything as British, Ottoman, and Russian armies fought their war on its soil leading to a famine that killed 2 million.

To dust off an old trope, we'd need an Iranian "Meiji".
 
EasternRomanEmpire

EasternRomanEmpire

walmart said:
Would it be possible for the British to back Iran with troops in order to gain access to Azeri oil ?
Click to expand...
The British have all oil they need in Iran itself, they have no reason to support the expansionist ambitions of Iran instead of supporting the Whites and they will withdraw soon enough from the RCW which means that any potential Iranian gain would be reversed.
 

HyperMuscularDemon

Given that Iran suffered a massive famine in 1917, which was the year that the Russian Empire fell, I highly doubt Iran’s military is capable of taking Armenia/Azerbaijan. However, there is a possibility for Iran to strengthen itself: the Great Game played between Britain and Russia. Iran could play off both sides in order to modernize, and then there are the oil reserves in the Persian Gulf, which if properly utilized could bring Iran a lot of money which in turn could be used to update Iran’s military. So in order for Iran to take Armenia/Azerbaijan, it most likely needs to be modernized in the way that Japan did.
 
Aisha Clan-Clan

Aisha Clan-Clan

Revanchist USSR likely is more uh unpopular, leading to a different flashpoint for an alt-WWII.WWII is USSR-Japan against the *allies of germany-uk-france-italy-US. Nazis end up blaming the holocaust/whatever they do to the poles on the soviets but you get people questioning the official story, especially given the lack of foreign visitors allowed into germany's "ally"/puppet of pland.
 
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